Citizens to Nickels: Hands Off Our Guns
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"Nickels takes fire from gun rights activists". "Second Amendment supporters take aim at City". Make all the cute little headlines you want about last night's public hearing about Mayor Greg Nickels' proposed firearms ban on city-owned property, but the issue has caught the attention of the public.
More than 150 people showed up at City Hall, with the vast majority sporting fashionable anti-Nickels buttons provided by the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. The irony is that Dec. 15 was also Bill of Rights Day, a fact not lost on on most of those who arrived to defend the Second Amendment and the more clearly defined right to own firearms as provided by Washington's constitution.
City Hall has received 2,000 messages - phone-calls, letters and mostly e-mails - about the controversy. Approximately 80 percent of these apparently have come from individuals residing outside the city limits.
Prior to last night's hearing, Nickels spokesperson Alex Fryer helpfully tried to suggest that most of the audience members in attendance did not live in Seattle, reminding this reporter again after the hearing ended.
"A lot of people not from the city of Seattle tonight will talk about their opposition," Fryer said. "But we believe this has a lot of support from the community."
Twenty-two individuals signed up to speak in favor of Nickels' rule change whereas more than 60 spoke against. Of these, roughly half, or more, lived inside Seattle and most of the rest claimed to visit or work in the Emerald City on a regular basis.
Although it is convenient to characterize the opponents of Nickels' gun ban merely as a lot of flannel and camo-clad yokels from Auburn or Kent or Enumclaw, the audience was far more representative of the city as a whole than one might stereotypically expect.
There were healthy numbers of liberals and progressives, environmentalists and community activists mixed in with Republicans and Libertarians who were opposed to the notion that, despite being licensed to legally carry a concealed firearm, they'd be forced to walk unarmed in city parks while gang members, stalkers and sundry other criminals are free to pack heat.
Lonnie Wilson, a Lynnwood resident, said he and his partner frequently visit Seattle because it is the center of gay cultural life in the region. He has had a concealed pistol license for eight years.
"As a gay man, I have to be very careful about holding the hand of my partner in public," Wilson said. "I don't want to hide myself just to be safe. Minorities such as myself are the biggest target of hate crimes."
Yvonne Kinoshita Ward, a civil rights lawyer and former President of the Asian Bar Association of Washington said the ban hurts the most vulnerable in the community, minorities, women, domestic violence victims and the disabled. She quoted FBI crime statistics stating that of the 9,000 hate crimes committed in 2007, 41 percent occured on government-owned property.
"Wicked and cowardly men who commit hate crimes do not obey the law," Ward said. "Do not disarm or criminalize those they seek to harm."
Maggie Willson, from Seattle, described herself as a "gun-toting tree-hugger" who campaigned for Barack Obama. She spoke about being raped at knife-point and living in fear for several years before a friend taught her how to shoot.
"Gun bans hurt women more than they hurt men," Willson said adding that she now feels secure, as a CPL holder, to hike at Carkeek Park.
Representatives from the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle spoke in favor of the ban, including Cheryl Stumbo who survived the shooting that occurred at their offices in 2006. Although she said the ban would make her feel safer, Stumbo admitted that Nickels' rule probably would not have prevented the hate crime that took the life of of her niece and injured five others.
Nor would the ban have stopped any of the other high-profile shootings that have marred the city, such as the 2007 University of Washington shooting that took the life of Rebecca Griego who had a protection order against a former boyfriend stalking her. Nor would it have prevented the 2006 Capitol Hill Massacre that claimed the lives of six people.
Which begs the question, and was asked numerous times by audience members, if the ban on guns in public places wouldn't have prevented these high-profile murder cases, and if it won't dissuade actual criminals from having firearms or "deadly weapons" in public places, what is the point of having a ban at all?
Mayor Nickels did not attend the hearing last night to answer that question. When asked why he didn't show, SW was informed that there are just so many hearings that take place in the City, the mayor can't be expected to attend them all.
The proposed firearms rule doesn't carry the force of criminal penalties either. Being a "rule" and not an ordinance or law, a person carrying a gun on city-owned property wouldn't be subject to a fine or arrest. Instead they would be merely asked to leave. It is only upon their refusal to leave that a gun-owner would be subject to criminal-trespass violations.
Citing pre-emption, last October Attorney General Rob McKenna issued a statement saying cities are not able to enact gun-control regulations that are more restrictive than those applied by state law.
The Mayor's office disagrees, relying on a state Supreme Court ruling allowing the City of Sequim to restrict a gun show on city property along with a variety of cities that have imposed ordinances restricting the possession of firearms in city halls.
30 comment(s)
mark edward marchiafava says:
Simple question: is the open carry of a weapon allowed in city hall?
Posted On: Tuesday, Dec. 16 2008 @ 10:54PM
Kirk Parker says:
Mark:
Yes. At least one person was doing so during the hearing. Here in WA state and local government buildings aren't close to carry per se; only court facilities, jails, and a few other places. See: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 7:37AM
Kirk Parker says:
Oops, make that "aren't closeD to carry".
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 7:39AM
Stu says:
Gun free zones are Government induced killing zones. This has been the case time after time. Criminals know this and take advantage of it.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 8:21AM
Joe Huffman says:
I have Just One Question for Mayor Nickels:
Can you demonstrate one time or place, throughout all history, where the average person was made safer by restricting access to handheld weapons?
I've been asking that question of people in favor of gun regulation for years and have never received a valid (supported by data) affirmative answer.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 8:58AM
David says:
Nickles not showing up just shows his arrogance of not carrying what the public wants or has to say on this topic.
His actions also shows a lack of concern for citizens to protect themselves from the crime ridden parts of Seattle.
Nickles all you are doing is protecting the criminal to pursue his career goals.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 9:35AM
walter m myers says:
ask mayor nickles to release his body gaurds back to the steets, this this will help. banning guns won't
walter myers
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 10:47AM
Bill Murray says:
The ONLY people affected by this rule are the law-abiding--the people who are NOT a problem. Criminals don’t follow the rules. Why is the Mayor intent on creating an environment safer only for criminals, more dangerous for the rest of us?
"Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." — Walter Mondale
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 12:40PM
Raul H. DIAZ says:
Fear The Goverment that Fears citizens with the ability to defend themselves.....
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 12:46PM
J.R. says:
"Can you demonstrate one time or place, throughout all history, where the average person was made safer by restricting access to handheld weapons?"
Yes. In March 1995, three women were shot and killed in the King County Courthouse by one woman's estranged husband.
Entrance screening was immediately imposed and in the 13 years since, visitors to the King County Courthouse have been demonstrably safer because of this restriction.
Glad to be of help, Mr. Huffman.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 1:23PM
Eric Sather says:
"Yes. In March 1995, three women were shot and killed in the King County Courthouse by one woman's estranged husband."
Wrong answer. The court house ban on fire arms was already in place when the 1995 killing took place. Seattle implemented screening after the fact.
Glad to be of help, Mr. Raul H. DIAZ
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 1:40PM
CJ Voges says:
As if I need another reason to stay away from Seattle.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 1:51PM
David says:
Firearms should never be banned in a place that can’t/isn’t screened by security to prevent ALL firearms. Otherwise only the abiding will obey the law and be disarmed.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 2:45PM
Joshua says:
Since when does the Mayor of Seattle by an Executive order get to tell visitors and residents what is "the law"? Excuse me, but we have state legislative roles and Constitutional rights that directly pertain to these particular issues. Get with it Nickels or get out!
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 3:44PM
Frederick Su says:
The 2nd Amendment is the first right among free Americans.
Join the NRA and oppose the gun banners, including Mayor Nickels and Barack Obama.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 4:34PM
Steve says:
The Mayor seems to be engaging in petty Democratic party butt kissing. Like the Governor of Illinois, trying to impress the president elect or position himself for favors later on in his career.
It is clear that there is no logic or result to the gun ban other than to leave law abiding citizens defensless and undermine the right to self defense and self protection. It is patronizing and self serving. look at all the publicity he's gotten out of it. You should find out if Obama has called him to cheer him on.
That this has to be pointed out year after year is insulting. Anyone who believes that a "gun ban" increases safety doesn't really understand the issue and is engaged in hysteria, not rational thought.
My favorite post: "as if I needed another reason to stay out of Seattle". I'm happy to spend my money in the burbs and I recommend that other Seattle residents who oppose the gun ban do so as well. An economic boycott might get some attention. What kind of mayor drives away business in an economic downturn?
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 5:39PM
Geore says:
Again Seattle's "first idiot Nicholes" doesn't understand the first thing about our constitution or even Washington States constitution. Fortunately I don't live in Seattle but,I do have to visit the city often. And I will continue to carry my weapon.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 7:57PM
Joe Waldron says:
To thank CCRKBA for leading the opposition to this arrogant and senseless "ban," visit their web site at http://www.ccrkba.org or call (425) 454-4911. They may still have a few "ban Nickels" buttons left.
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 7:59PM
Eric says:
A Mayor of a city should have the safety of it's citizens and their best interests formost in his or her mind. Clearly, Nicholes does not. This person has his own best interests at heart. Please, everyone remove this selfish Jack'n'apes from our once fair city. The mindless gun control/crime increase mindset of these Politicos must come to an end. FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME: GUN CONTROL = INCREASED VIOLENT CRIME.
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 4:12AM
Marsh says:
Why not just wait and see what Obama does. Then in true Demo form just point fingers and say it wasn't me,they did it! You get what you vote for!
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 6:24AM
Joshua Sherman says:
For those who feel the constitution is "muddy" on this topic, reading the opinions of our founding fathers makes this pretty clear:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson
For stats on crime and the right to carry, the URL I list is a good start.
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 12:42PM
L.B. Davis says:
As a gun owner I can understand what you people are having to put up with. However I am blessed with living in a state where WE THE PEOPLE still have the full right to carry a firearm and to be able protect ourselves. I live in the great state of Georgia where we do not have to let those who would rob shoot steal or otherwise hurt us get away with it. We stand for freedom and liberty and we hold our elected officials feet to the fire .I urge you good people of Washington to do the same.
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 4:02PM
L.B. Davis says:
As a gun owner I can understand what you people are having to put up with. However I am blessed with living in a state where WE THE PEOPLE still have the full right to carry a firearm and to be able protect ourselves. I live in the great state of Georgia where we do not have to let those who would rob shoot steal or otherwise hurt us get away with it. We stand for freedom and liberty and we hold our elected officials feet to the fire .I urge you good people of Washington to do the same.
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 4:02PM
Joshua (click to read more) says:
I would argue that gun control laws only make sense in tightly controlled environments (Courthouses, prisons, etc.) where all who enter are scanned for the presence of a weapon.
Absent these measures gun control laws only inform criminals about where they are most likely to find unarmed victims and make it harder to for violent crime to be stopped in time once it occurs.
With all due respect to the police, although they have the means and mandate to respond in kind, their involvement is often too late to deal effectively with the purpetrators before they cause significant damage. Reaction time is CRITICAL.
To quote John Lott on the matter:
"Examining all the multiple-victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1999 shows that on average, states that adopt right-to-carry laws experience a 60% drop in the rates at which the attacks occur, and a 78% drop in the rates at which people are killed or injured from such attacks.
To the extent such attacks still occurred in right-to-carry states, they overwhelmingly take place in so-called "gun-free zones." Indeed, the attack last week in Meridian, Miss., in which five people were killed took place in a Lockheed Martin plant where employees were forbidden to have guns."
Of course, this comes at odds with property rights at some level, as a company like Lockheed Martin should arguably have some control over what happens on their property, but again, limiting licensed conceal carry only opened the door to what happened there.
The sad thing is that the mayor of Seattle will most likely pretend that the gun ban will make public parks, the library, etc. safer, but will turn a blind eye to the fact that he is making these places a MORE DANGEROUS place to be unless he follows up with the expensive option of screening for weapons.
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 5:02PM
Greg Winchell says:
Nickel's plan is unconstitutional. He cites the issaquah case. What that case was about was where a gun show promoter wanted to have a gun show on Issaquah public property ...in other words commerce.
For Nickels to believe that concelaed carry holders who carry GUNS for PERSONAL PROTECTION in Seattle parks etc. is the same as someone wanting to have guns on public property to SELL GUNS specifically is nuts.
Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 6:29PM
Ron says:
JOIN THE NRA TODAY OR LOSE YOUR GUN RIGHTS!! CALL 1-877-NRA-2000.
Posted On: Friday, Dec. 19 2008 @ 2:21PM
Ron says:
JOIN THE NRA TODAY OR LOSE YOUR GUN RIGHTS!! CALL 1-877-NRA-2000.
Posted On: Friday, Dec. 19 2008 @ 2:26PM
Stu Strickler says:
Gun Free Zones are Killing Zones. These killing zones are mandated by local, state and the Federal Government. Anyone who tells you that you do not have a right to carry a firearm for personal protection is misinformed. Let's ban misinformed people from holding public office. You listening Mayor?
Posted On: Sunday, Dec. 21 2008 @ 6:27AM
Joseph N. Scarabino says:
Mayor Nickels is a scoff-law who needs to be prosecuted for violating state pre-emption laws and the U.S. Constitution. In my opinion there is no worse criminal than one who is a killer of the rights that so many have died for. He should be put in jail.
Posted On: Sunday, Dec. 21 2008 @ 8:11AM
Will McDonough says:
Section 1 of the Washington State Constitution clearly states "Political power is...established to protect and maintain individual rights" - This is doing the EXACT OPPOSITE!!! Take guns from CRIMINALS, NOT us LAW ABIDING citizens! We need to stand against this outrageous disregard of our constitutional rights. Nickels need to be removed.
Posted On: Monday, Jun. 1 2009 @ 12:52PM